Stuart: Hi there and welcome to the Couples Expert Relationship Podcast. You’re with Stuart Fensterheim, the Couples Expert. Today I’m going to have on my show someone I’m very excited to talk with because she does something that I believe is one of the up and coming areas that all of us in the relationship field need to be paying attention to. And these are the executives who travel a great deal, have families, and I think for the most part, for the longest time even those of us in the couples/ relationship field haven’t paid a close enough attention to the struggles and the difficulties that have come from having a relationship where one or both of the partners travel a great deal.
Who I have on my show is Meagan Bearce. Meagan is a therapist out of Minnesota, and I love Minnesota accents. I’ve been out there a few times and this is definitely the time of year that I like talking with people from Minnesota because they are the ones that I love to tell when it’s January and February that I’m in Phoenix, Arizona, Scottsdale and it is 80 degrees, and I say, “And by the way, what’s the temperature there?” And they pretty much almost routinely in January and February say, “Well, it’s -50 degrees.” And I said, “Well I just got on sun bathing and swimming in my pool, how about that?” and I love just teasing them because this is why we live where we live. We live in Arizona because of the weather all year around pretty much. We don’t talk about the summers, but we love this time of year because this is why we live here.
I first heard of Meagan because of her book that she has written on Super Commuters, and we’ll talk a lot about Super Commuters and basically what that is: they are the couples that work so hard to stay together even when their job keeps them apart, and one of the things that I learned about Meagan just recently is that she actually has been living that life, and she is a licensed therapist, and she’s got about 13 years of experience of providing support and assistance to Super Commuters. Her area of expertise is working with super commuters, super moms, and gifted girls. She’s also the author of a book Super Commuter Couples Staying Together When The Job Keeps You Apart, and she’s also won, which is pretty cool, a Midwest book awards, silver medalist on that book.
She’s been on lots of different talk shows talking about this topic. It’s a really interesting area that she’s been interviewed both on The BBC, the Today Show, CBS Evening News, Huffington Post Live, Forbes, and US news and world report. So I feel really fortunate that she has been willing to share her time and her gift of talking about this incredible, important topic and helping families that have this really difficult separation during their marriage. So I really welcome you Meagan to the Couples Expert Podcast, and I’m excited to have you here.
Meagan: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be part of it.
Stuart: Yeah, it’s really fun because you and I had a conversation a little while back about our topic today being super commuters and how that is one of your specialties, and more and more I am seeing couples who work who are contacting me, who are having that struggle of how do you maintain that relationship. But before we get into all of that, one of the things that I would like to know is a little bit about what led you to the path of being a therapist and particularly the population of couples who are traveling quite a bit.
Meagan: Sure. Like a lot of therapists, I originally was not a therapist. I went to school, and I was an accountant. I became a CPA after my undergrad and found that I just was miserable in the position, but I was an auditor, and what I did like was the fact that typically a lot of small family-run businesses were my clients, and I like the dynamic of the office which can be a lot like a family, and eventually I became more of a supervisor role both there and when I went into private accounting. And people would joke that my office was a therapy office. My workers were coming to me to talk about everything, their problems, their family, their relationships and actually even as I think back when I was in high school, my nickname was Dr. Roofs. So somewhere in there… I know, right? There is always this kind of leading towards somebody that other people could come to and trust and give their feedback.
And so after five years of being a CPA, I just could not do it anymore, and I just started talking to people to figure out what their jobs were and what do they like, and I took some personality tests and writer, therapist, teacher were the ones that all came up, and it just so happens that my two mother-in-laws and father-in-law are all therapists. They are social workers and a psychologist, and so I really got lucky to be able to talk to them firsthand about why did you go in this profession and what it is that they liked about it. And eventually I went to grad school and became a licensed marriage and family therapist and went into private practice and originally in California, you really, which you probably know as well, you really have to kind of specialize. It’s really advised to find a niche to kind of set yourself apart and mine initially was working with women and girls in particular around perfectionism and high achieving kind of type-A personalities. But then fast forward quite a few years, we unexpectedly moved to Minneapolis, which is originally where I’m from. And after about a year of being here, my husband was offered his dream job, but unfortunately the job was in New York City, and like I mentioned, we’re in Minneapolis and it was 2010, you know. We weren’t sure how stable anything was; we just bought a house and of course couldn’t turn around and sell it. So we kind of made the best of the situation, and he spoke with some people also in the advertising industry who were doing this thing. They call it a super commute where you actually live in one city and commute quite a distance to your job. And so we decided to give it a shot for a year.
And around the same time, I was having more clients come into my practice, maybe not because of the commuter relationship, but it would come out in the sessions that some of their relationship stress was the fact that their partner traveled a lot for work or they were on the road 2-3 days a week or actually, as often happens which you probably can attest to, is the commute stops or the trouble happens when that other partner is actually at home, and so it felt like this is kind of where I need to be, and that there’s a lot of people struggling with this and nobody is really talking about it.
Stuart: When you say the commute stops and the trouble starts at home, can you clarify that a little bit.
Meagan: Sure. So I call it the re-entry period. I don’t know if there’s an official term for it. So it could be like in our case, my husband leaves on Monday and comes back on Friday. So the reentry time for us is Saturday and Sunday when he’s back in the family. For some people, let’s say they are consultants and for a year and a half they’re flying between Chicago and Omaha and then maybe they’re done, and it’s a month or two before they’re assigned to the next client. So all of a sudden they’ve been living basically apart for the most part for a year and a half and now all of a sudden they’re back together every day and the kids have gotten older and routines have changed, and the person at home has their system down and sometimes it’s difficult to have that person kind of reintegrate fulltime into the family.
Stuart: You know, that makes so much sense because one of the things that I see quite a bit in my office as well are those couples, and then the problems that begin have to do with am I an outsider on my part of the family? And that concept is so painful to the person that’s commuting because they feel so very much alone, and all they’ve been looking forward to is being back with their family. What advice do you typically give couples like that? How to them reintegrate that person?
Meagan: Well I think the first and most important thing to realize is that what works is probably going to change, maybe from month to month or year to year. So you really need to be open with the flexibility. So there’s really kind of three main parts I found with the people that I interviewed for the book, and the ones that were the most successful navigated the reentry period. So what they did is they made sure to talk about for example the commuter when they return home, do they want their family to run to the door and charm with hugs and kisses or are they exhausted from travelling and just want 15 minutes to go read the magazine or just unpack? That’s kind of the first step, like how do you want to initially return in the family, and kind of hand and hand with that is the second thing: it’s communication. You really need to talk about that. And so for the person who has been at home, especially if you have kids, do they need to let go of the very next day and hang out with their friends or get a massage, like how do they want to come back together.
And then the third part of what successful couples really got good at was what I call building their village or asking for help. You’d think in our society it is really difficult to do, but the couples who did or at least had that network in place for when stuff did happen were the most resourceful.
Stuart: So these were couples who knew what their limitations were and knew what they wanted and then I would assume that goes both ways, both the commuter asking for help in their emotional needs and the person who is there asking for help to not feel like they have to drop everything, their world just stops.
Meagan: Right. You know and there’s little examples too, which again having worked with couples I think you probably heard this before, and again, this could go either way, but one partner let’s say says, “You never helped me. You’re finally home. Can you help me unload the dishwasher or load the dishwasher?” It’s usually the loading that’s causing the problem.
Meagan: And they’re saying, “Sure, happy to.” And they start to load the dishwasher and the partner goes, “No, it’s supposed to be the glasses on the top rack.” So it’s like can you get comfortable actually accepting the help and letting them do it in the way that works for them instead of micromanaging? Because then it starts that dynamic of why should I help you, and it’s not good enough, or it’s not done the right way. Those little things that actually turn into a lot of bigger things later on.
Stuart: And then when we talk about cycles in a relationship and as an emotionally-focused therapist, I focus a great deal on that. Having to do with the dishes issue that you just raised, I can’t imagine a bigger trigger that could happen for couples to have someone say that. Then what goes on with the partner? And are they able to share that vulnerable feeling, and how do I do that and not feel like, “Okay, here I’m back and now what we’re going to do is fight.”
Meagan: Right, exactly. And another thing I heard too, because I interview quite a few military couples and so obviously when there’s deployment and workouts are separated for longer period of time, and they would also say when they were having trouble, they would find that they actually would fight when they first got back together and then they would fight the last few days that they were together before the person left again, and it’s the whole idea that it’s easier to leave if you’re mad than if you’re intimate and attached and all that. So that was an interesting thing that came up with my interviews.
Stuart: You know, that’s really interesting because I actually have a couple I see now, and he’s an ex-navy SEAL and that experience that they had every time he would go away was exactly that–they would have these big fights, and I think they’ve recognize that some of that is because it’s so hard to leave, and then how do you then deal with the issues of feeling so lonely and alone in a marriage when you’re not physically present? That’s such a horrible sort of experience. How do you help people really bring each other with them, for lack of a better word, staying really together emotionally even when they’re not physically together?
Meagan: Well again, I think that comes down to the communication because you need to figure out kind of what personality type you are. Are you a verbal, are you an auditory? So some couples might do great on the phone or with Skype or with letters. So I think you need to get creative first of all, for sure, but I think technology has made this so much easier. So can you stick a note in their suitcase before they go? Can you have a set time to just have a quick text exchange? A lot of couples had either monthly or more frequently date nights. A lot of them did staycations which is another kind of newer term. Instead of going in a vacation, you just go stay at a hotel in your city or someplace close by, so you’re not spending the time and money actually on the travel but you can get away from your kids or you know, your obligations and have a dinner and actually have quality time together and that again, is a really big piece, is quality not quantity. So you really have to maximize your time together. So I have a bunch more but if you have a question then I’ll take a break.
Stuart: What about the trust issues, and I think that’s a huge one for a lot of couples that aren’t really secure in the relationship, which is why that’s so critical to these kind of couples. How do you help people with those fears and doubts and feeling really unimportant at times and wondering is a partner really there?
Meagan: Right. Well I think that comes down to how do you communicate, and how do you vocalize that and how do you show that for each other. And people always say, “Oh, aren’t these relationships more at risk for infidelity?” And I would say no. I don’t know how you feel about that, but I think there’s probably as many people who have affairs that you know, have a 10-commute instead of across country. You know, I think one that I talk about it with this type of relationship is there’s a lot of ambiguous loss which is a term for when there is emotional connection but physical absence and so a lot of the work is around that, like what is your identity when they’re home and when they’re not home? Can you find meaning, can you make – because I think a lot of that loneliness is how do you connect with your spouse and how do you connect in the greater world. So if all of your focus and all of your being is tied up in one person being physically there all the time, I think you’re going to run into trouble regardless of the commutes. How do you build each other up together and apart?
Stuart: It’s sort of the quality versus quantity question.
Stuart: And the other thing that I think for someone who travels, I did some traveling as you know, people think when you’re traveling, it really is sort of all this excitement and that you have all this time to sort of–if you talk about the infidelity issue, but the amount of intensity of meetings and these kinds of things, you have actually less time to do that than if you were here at home as you were saying.
Meagan: Yeah, exactly. And I think too is how to decide a super commute situation is right for you as a couple, and there’s a whole bunch of questions for them to ask each other, and I found in the people I interviewed too is what was their attitude towards the situation? Is it one like okay, this is an opportunity for me or my spouse to eventually get promoted in a year, is it a temporary thing, or is it a permanent thing? With the military family, it’s like this is what we signed up for. When you marry somebody in the military, you’re going to be separated. So I really think your attitude towards the situation makes a big difference too. Can you find the benefits of the situation and make the most of it?
Stuart: You know, the sad part for me is I know with the military families in particular, there’s really a network of other women, and I think about the super commuters, and I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of anything where there’s really a support network for the spouses.
Meagan: No and that’s one thing that I wanted to start when I initially embarked on this was a support group, and I call it the “weekday widows.” People didn’t like the term, which I understand, but it was really to kind of be a place for these women who were alone but not really single and who kind of have the stress of being the single parent but not really. And so again, it’s kind of this ambiguous place, and I’m still trying to figure out how to connect those people whether it’s a private group or a Facebook group because what I hear the most is when people learn about the book or learn about my specialty or even just learn that I’m in a commuter relationship they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one who felt that way,” or, “Oh my goodness, I’m glad that other people feel like this,” because I think you and I, when we’re talking about this, sometimes there’s a lot of shame that goes a lot in these relationships because people who don’t understand it fully have a lot of judgment about it, like how can you possibly love your spouse if they’re gone every week or how has your husband a good parent if he’s not there Monday through Friday? And so I think it shoots a lot of people down and they become really isolated.
Stuart: Right and the one that we were talking about, I recall in our telephone call had to do with not showing up for the kids’ activities, and the shame that comes with that and how do you help kids understand that.
Meagan: Yeah. You know and again, there’s a perfect example how sometimes in the right situation technology can work, do you have a smart phone that you can FaceTime or Skype and actually have them “at the game.”
Stuart: Just don’t hit the computer. No, that’s an excellent point. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you when we look at this group of different people and you talk military families and now with a presidential election around the corner.
Stuart: That’s right. I wonder a lot about politicians’ families and the amount of traveling, or I was talking to a ball player the other day and the number of games that they have I think is a 160 or so games as a baseball player where most of it, at least half are away. How do you deal with really staying intimate, and I’m not talking sexually now, I’m talking emotionally intimate. How do you have those conversations, and if there’s a challenge, how do you bring those up and how do you talk about them?
Meagan: Well I think some of it goes back to basic couples therapy. Can you use the “I feel” statements instead of starting off with “you never do this” or “why don’t you do that,” “I feel really alone, if you tell me you’re going to call then you don’t”, you know, those sorts of things–I talked with couples about that. Can you start that very basic conversations? Sometimes they really get going.
Stuart: Right, and I think some of that has to do with the security of the relationship.
Stuart: And you’re talking a lot about that and being vulnerable to really have an experience with your partner where you know that they matter more than anyone in the world.
Meagan: Exactly. Tell them you love them, send a little text. And again, technology, you know, there’s SnapChat, like you can get creative with that too obviously to stay connected but I think you said, it’s the emotional intimacy. Do you feel special and do they care about you when you’re home? I think this is an important one too because I keep matching technologies, when you’re home and when you are together. Can you put your phones down for two or three hours and just connect with each other?
Stuart: I’m laughing because–did you hear there’s now a new word called phubbing? Have you heard about that yet?
Stuart: You’ll laugh at this one but it fits right to what you’re saying. Phubbing is phone snubbing so that when you’re in a conversation with someone and they’re looking at their phone or they’re doing that, they’re calling that now phubbing, P-H-U-B-B-I-N-G and it’s an actual word they’re thinking of putting in the dictionary.
Meagan: Yeah, I can see that.
Stuart: And it’s really making each other feel important all the time, not just when you’re together but whenever.
Meagan: You know and it can be a little check-in like even a voicemail or phone call or a text, like “oh I really love to sit on the couch holding your hand this weekend” or “thank you for taking such good care of our kids while I’m away” or “thank you for working so hard and being on the road, I know it’s really difficult.” So speaking gratitude may just come down to gratitude too.
Stuart: And it’s really the small things, isn’t it?
Meagan: Yeah, totally. It’s like my husband sometimes will leave little notes for us on Monday morning before he goes to the airport, and I think–you may laugh at it but just something really sweet from the weekend–it’s a great way to start the week instead of saying, “oh, I’m so sad he’s gone” and say instead, “Oh, what a great guy or what a great weekend we have,” or things like that.
Stuart: How do you help kids in this who also feel that connection?
Meagan: Again, I think it’s about the quality versus quantity, but I learned a lot of great little tips from the military families. So they have what are called the hug-a-hero dolls. You can make a little stuffed doll that has the face of the parent who’s away; you can insert a little voice recorder so they can even record the sound of the parent who’s away. So it obviously a little bit more tangible, but we would do things like little journal during the week. So we would jot down like on Monday somebody lost a tooth or on Tuesday, you know, whatever little things happened during the week because you don’t always have the chance to talk with the commuter every day. And that way on the weekend they can go through the journal with the commuter and kind of recount the week: the little details that kind of fall through the cracks between the phone calls.
Another thing my husband does sometimes is what’s called photo postcards. So you take a picture with your smart phone and it turn it into a postcard. So multiple pictures of things he sees during the week in New York, or if he’s traveling elsewhere and sends it to the kids and it’s super funny to get mail, and he’s away and we kind of see where he’s at. The one that I really like too is again, it’s really feeling emotionally connected and present, and we’re on the phone and things like that and just again, reminding the kids that you love them. Some other kind of tricks that the military families shared were something called a hug-a-hero doll which is a little stuffed animal or doll that looks like the person who is away. There are voice recorder books where the person can record themselves reading a story: that’s a big favorite in our household, so the kids can have their dad “read them a book” while he’s away. And depending on the age of the kid, time is a really hard concept to grasp, so one of the military family ideas was to take a jar and put kiss shaped candies, and we’re not doing any commercials here, and you put one in there for each day that the person is away. So the idea is that the child gets to eat a kiss candy, and then they can visibly see the jar get more and more empty and then when they eat the last one in there, their parent is going to be coming home the next day.
Stuart: I love that idea. That sounds really, really great.
Meagan: Yeah, it’s a fun one.
Stuart: You know, and that also opens up the discussion you could do with something similar, couldn’t you for couples?
Meagan: Yep, for sure.
Stuart: You know, maybe putting little love notes in a jar and having their partner pull one. And my wife actually did that on an anniversary once. She put in a whole bunch of these things, and it really was something that even when you’re triggered, you can pull something like that out and it reminds you, particularly if you’re away I think, you need that kind of reinforcement.
Meagan: Yeah. I think a big thing is that it’s kind of the flip side of the successful relationships are the ones that have trouble–the ones where resentment flares up a lot, and I think if you could kind of inoculate yourself against that with those sort of little notes, I think it’s really important. So what I talked to clients about is, “Okay, you might get mad because a pipe burst in the house and your kids are running around and why their spouse is not here to help. You know, take a breath, and breathing is important, but then try to start listing all the things you’re grateful for like what is it their job or the commuter working for? And try to consider that resentment when you start a relationship.
Stuart: You need to just really do everything you can to avoid those resentments. Now you mentioned your book a couple of times, and we haven’t really talked about it. Could you share with my listeners a little bit about your book and the way they can find it and all those kinds of things?
Meagan: Yes, so the book came out of my experience. A month into the commuters, I wanted to started blogging and my husband said, “Why don’t you blog about us being commuters?” And I was like, “I don’t know about that.” But I sat down and started to write the blog and it was pages which as it is may be kind of too long for couples.
Stuart: That’s a little bit.
Meagan: A little bit long, more than 1500 words. So I’m like, “Huh, maybe I have a book here.” And then again, like I said, with more clients coming in and just meeting more people in general who would say, “Oh, my uncle did that,” or, “Oh, we used to do that.” I was like, “There’s a lot of people.” So I put the word on on social media and said, “Hey, if you know somebody that’s done this or does it, can I interview them?” And I had more people respond than I had space in the book to do. And so what I did was I interviewed all these people. I combined our experience and then I also used some of the research from the center at NYU with this transportation requirement, and I have a study that came out about the emergence of super commuters. So between all of that, the stories from these people like what their experiences are, what works, what doesn’t work, and then I also have a section there dealing with that ambiguous loss that I mentioned, so that’s kind of a nice chapter if therapists are working with these clients. And then at the end, I have I think 23 or 24 questions for couples both who are considering a commute or maybe currently are in it and having some trouble trying to go through together or with a therapist if they choose and really kind of make these relationships work and that’s the subtitle, “staying together when a job keeps you apart.” You can do it, there’s a lot of successful relationship that live this way.
Stuart: And that really is the message for all of us, isn’t it? That if the two of you put your heads together and really love each other and are willing to be vulnerable with each other, you can accomplish whatever.
Meagan: For sure. And to answer your second part, it’s available wherever books are sold as a paperback and ebooks, so you can find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, iTunes,
Stuart: And one of the things I’m going to do is I’m going to list in my show notes for today’s podcast the title of the book and how to get hold of it and all of those things, so you don’t have to write it down especially if you’re a commuter and you’re driving right now; please don’t do that.
Meagan: I think it’s something that’s going to continue to arise, I mean it’s on the rise now, but I think it’s just going to continue.
Stuart: What were one or two of the questions you think that people were surprised by in terms of what they hadn’t thought about? Is there anyone in particular that stand out?
Meagan: The questions that I asked them?
Stuart: Or the questions they should ask themselves.
Meagan: Oh, I have them answer the question, and this is – well it’s featured both of them actually, but it’s what is one of the things that causes you the most stress, like task or household chore or whatever, and can you either hire somebody to do that or can you have your spouse help you with that? That’s part one and the second part of the question is if you are going to let your spouse help you with it, can you let them do it in their own way? So kind of back to that do you need to micromanage?
Stuart: I think the other question that comes up a lot for me is when two people are not together, I think the issue of phone calls becomes such a big issue.
Stuart: And sometimes people are so busy particularly when we talk about time zone differences and things like that. Do you have a recommendation for folks about the frequency of that and how to deal with when you can’t talk?
Meagan: No. I don’t have a hard rule because again, that’s something that each couple needs to decide on their own, and they also have to be able to change that. So for example the baseball player you brought up or ball player, they may be able to call most nights at 6, but if it’s game night, they probably can’t. So do you skip it or do you set an alternative time to call? If you can’t call, make sure you text and say can’t call, we’ll try in the morning. Again, I think you just have to amp up your level of communication, the frequency, and the clarity of it. And again, another thing that people I think were surprised by in the book is that people said, “Oh, should you talk to your kids every night at 6 o’clock or whatever?” That is something that needs to kind of be renegotiated up too because depending on the age of the kids, sometimes it’s more difficult for them to be interrupted. It’s kind of out of side, out of mind but not in a negative way but they have the routine, sometimes they’re having the spouse interrupt during the week or during the middle of a homework or whatever kind of is more difficult emotionally for them, but then you need to communicate so that the partner who is away isn’t like, “Oh my gosh, my kids hate me,” and they don’t have a conversation about that like I can’t talk to you tonight dad because I was you know, whatever.
Stuart: You know, that comes a lot during divorce situations, so it’s very similar issue I think particularly what it’s like for both of them, the person who is away to hear the argument over the phone about, “Your dad is on the phone,” “No, I don’t want to talk to him.” And what that feels like; sometimes it is better not to do that.
Meagan: Yeah. And it’s interesting you brought that up about the divorce because that’s another trigger I find some difficulty with the partners is they call the Disney dad situation which is a dynamic that typically happens in divorce cases, but it’s when the commuter is home, they want to be all about fun and games and play, play, play but the reality is there’s homework to do; there’s chores to do; there may be a huge to-do list that’s piled up during the week and so how do you navigate that and communicate, again, the spouse at home isn’t like, “Oh great. So I have to do everything during the week and on the weekends too?” So that’s a common argument I hear.
Stuart: And the other flip side of that I think is also where you know, the partner who’s at home doesn’t necessarily want dad or mom to feel like they have to just come home and do everything. So they try to take it away from them, and maybe what they’ve been looking forward to more than anything is sitting down with their child and doing homework.
Stuart: And I don’t think people think about that because that’s more of the normalcy and without that, what does that feel like? And how to really not feel alone. Go ahead Meagan, I’m sorry.
Meagan: I don’t know if you hear about this often with couples that you see, but one of the reasons, I feel, for the rise in these commuter relationships is you know, combination of the economy and housing market, but I think there’s a lot of dual couples these days than there were 30 years ago, and if one spouse is starting to commute and the other one is working full time at some point, sometimes they decide it’s just too difficult, so they go to part-time or they stop and so there’s sometimes the grief and loss around their career and their connection of coworkers. So like all these side issues that kind of go along with this potentially too that make it more complex than it appears on the surface.
Stuart: It’s a pretty fascinating topic, and I’d really want to just thank you for sharing it with my listeners and really giving of yourself and the time and giving to a group of people that I think not many people have really focused on enough.
Stuart: And one of the questions I guess I have for you in closing is what have you learned about yourself in this, as you’ve been doing this is and is there something that you were surprised by within yourself?
Meagan: I think just the idea that you know, I’m able and we’re doing it. We were really both kind of nervous because we said we do it for a year, and it’s been five now and the first year was rough. I still remember this time where everybody was just so ready for him to be at home, and because of the weather, he missed his flight and wasn’t going to be able to be home. We had a lot of plans, and I was like, both of us, “Oh my god, why are we doing this?” But when we sit down and list out the reasons why and the advantages to it and we’re like, “You know, we can make this work, and we’re just as strong of a couple as we were when we started,” maybe even more so because we both know that we can be apart and still be together. The physical distance doesn’t have to mean emotional distance. So I’m happy that we’re one of the success stories so far and hopefully that will help other people. And then people always ask about how the are kids doing. I think our kids are doing really well. I mean there’s obviously days that they’re sad their dad isn’t here, but they know that he loves them and when he’s home he’s all about them. So it’s been nice that it’s continued to be that way.
Stuart: And then you have something that you can stand back and look at yourself, look at your relationship and say, “We really are pretty awesome.”
Meagan: Yeah, exactly.
Stuart: You know, I mean that in every sense of the word that it allows you to really feel that love that we all need to not feel like we have on stable relationship.
Meagan: Right and people said, “Oh my god, what about infidelity and don’t you trust someone,” and I’m like, “I do.” Like we just do.
Stuart: And the feeling of with together, we’ll never be alone because we have each other.
Stuart: Well thank you again Meagan for coming on and giving of yourself. I really appreciate it.
Meagan: Thanks for having me.
Stuart: And just wanted to remind all my listeners, I’ll have information on Meagan that if you want to get hold of her, how to do that and ask her questions and thank you again and we’ll see you guys next time. Take care. Bye-bye.